ITV GMB fans outraged as guest calls to AXE state pension after complaining ‘why should I pay for millionaires!’
Dr Lisa McKenzie, a Senior Lecturer in Sociology, and Reem Ibrahim of the Institute of Economic Affairs, locked horns during a debate about pensions on Thursday’s Good Morning Britain.
Following the release of a report that claims pensioner poverty needs to be tackled and there should be more financial support for OAPS, Ibrahim and McKenzie debated whether more money should end up in the pockets of those enjoying their retirement.
However, moments into the debate, it’s safe to say ITV viewers at home were less than impressed with the approach Ibrahim adopted for the debate.
Presenter Charlotte Hawkins kicked off the debate, asking the pair: “It’s true to say that there are those pensioners who find it really hard to afford the cost of living, etc.
“But as a group, pensioners do have a lot of assets, don’t they? When we look at the figures involved, can we continue to fund at that level and have a protected amount for the pension? Is it sustainable?”
McKenzie replied: “We must protect the pension. Pensions have been a long, hard-fought benefit for people. Let’s remember that when you retire, you are not working; your income is never gonna increase.
“Inequality in this country is absolutely widening, and what we don’t want is people of the future to be born poor and then die poor.”
Turning her attention to her fellow guest, she continued: “I will admit, Reem is a young person who is struggling because life is difficult now, but this is one demographic; it’s a blip.
“The next generation of pensioners won’t be as wealthy as this, and then Reem’s generation, if we are lucky and we grow old, won’t be as wealthy as this. So we need to protect it for the future -“
“On that point, I won’t ever get a state pension. The state pension in its current system is entirely unsustainable,” Ibrahim interjected.
“Why won’t you get a state pension?” Balls quizzed, to which Ibrahim replied: “Because it’s unsustainable. It’s absolutely going to have to be (taken away).
“But what are the options? We either borrow more money – we already saw in June that government borrowing went to £20billion. It is extortionate the amount of money the government is having to spend, and a lot of it is on public sector spending, and a lot of it is on pensions.
“Now, the triple lock on pensions means the pension system is specifically for those individuals who do not get a lot of money, about £150 a week. But when we think about it from a wider perspective, a quarter of pensioners are millionaires. Why should young hard-working taxpayers have to foot the bill for benefits to be given to millionaires?”
Hawkins asked if it should therefore be “means tested”, to which McKenzie answered: “I mean, we currently have 1.9 million pensioners that are living in relative poverty, and as generations move on, that will probably rise. I believe in universal benefits. It tells the story of our country, it tells the story of who we are, and I think we’ve lost that political story -“
But Ibrahim cut in: “But don’t you think then that those 1.9 million pensioners should be receiving more money, but then that money can be targeted to those that actually need it?
“Of course, there are pensioners who are in poverty that need our support, but why should money go to everybody. Why should someone like Lord Alan Sugar, a multi-millionaire, be getting taxpayer-funded benefits?”
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McKenzie defended pensioners once more: “Well, when we look at the wealth of pensioners, most of it is in housing. The problem here is housing, it’s not pensions. If we’re looking at policies to have more levelling up and equality, we should be looking at housing -“
Ibrahim cut in again: “I can’t afford to buy a house! The housing crisis is absolutely rife. Why should I then foot the bill for a pensioner because they don’t want to sell their house?”
“That’s an issue for housing, not pensions,” McKenzie hit back, before the two then engaged in an overlapping discussion as Ibrahim continued to question why “millionaires should receive the state pension” before Balls intervened.
“Pensioners pay income tax, pensioners pay VAT, at the moment, pensioners don’t pay any national insurance. Would you spread national insurance to pensioners so that they would pay that?” Balls quizzed.
“No, I wouldn’t,” Ibrahim replied. “Because the fact is that the system is broken. The entire concept of a state pension is entirely a Ponzi scheme. People think you pay national insurance all your life, and that money stays in a little pot in the treasury, and then when you turn pension age, you take that money out.
“That isn’t how the system works. The state pension today is being paid by taxpayers paying today; that’s the point.”
Balls pointed out that’s the same way it’s been for 120 years, prompting Ibrahim to brand the entire system a “complete lie”.
Ibrahim rounded off her point by calling for a “means test” of pensions to ensure that, once again, “millionaire pensioners do not get taxpayer money”.
She insisted three-quarters of pensioners are homeowners and asked why “asset-millionaire pensioners” should receive the state pension while her generation “footed the bill”.
McKenzie disagreed, saying we don’t need “more divisions” in society and calling further for reform to the “broken housing market”. “Leave pensions alone,” McKenzie concluded.
Balls had the final word, telling Ibrahim that no political party would endorse her plans to abolish the state pension.
Inevitably, the row sparked a furious reaction from viewers who want to see the state pension protected for the current generation and the future.
One X user raged on the social media site: “The state pension is not a benefit, it’s a right… This woman is deranged. #GMB.”
“Why is the shouty woman blaming pensioners for not having a home?” a second weighed in. “Hasn’t she just seen the news story about illegals being put into hotels? They get free accommodation for contributing nothing at all to our society. #gmb.”
“The majority of these people have worked & paid taxes all their life in the hope of a comfortable retirement. It’s not a ‘benefit’ when they’ve worked for this,” a third commented before a fourth said: “Who is this? Pensioners should sell their homes! So lazy b******s who haven’t worked can sponge more! #gmb she needs to be educated.”
Elsewhere, a fifth hit out at Ibrahim: “So if I make money and become a millionaire and therefore pay more tax than this stupid girl would pay in her lifetime I’m not allowed to take the pension I paid for? Utter nonsense again by the youth thinking they know how to change something. #GMB.”
And a sixth concurred: “Here we go #GMB bashing the pensioners again!!!! For goodness sake protect the pensioners.” (sic)